ANNOUNCER: TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR, AN INSTALLMENT OF FAMOUS FAMILIES WITH MICHAEL ILYINSKY, DISCUSSING HIS GRANDFATHER, GRAND DUKE DMITRI OF RUSSIA.

ANNOUNCER: STAY TUNED, SHOWCASE STARTS RIGHT NOW.

(MUSIC) KELLAR: HI, I'M BARBARA KELLAR, WELCOME TO SHOWCASE.

TODAY I HAVE WHAT I KNOW YOU WILL THINK IS ONE OF MY MOST INTERESTING GUESTS.

NOWADAYS, WE ALL WANT TO KNOW WHAT WAS OUR BACKGROUND, WHAT WAS OUR HERITAGE.

AND WE HAVE ALL THE SITES, ANCESTRY.COM AND ROOTS, AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS AND FIND OUT ABOUT OUR ANCESTORS.

BUT MY GUEST TODAY, MICHAEL ILYINSKY, HAS WHAT I THINK IS THE MOST BACKGROUND STORY OF ALL.

MICHAEL, TELL US WHY YOU'RE HERE.

ILYINSKY: WELL, TO TALK ABOUT MY FAMILY'S ANCESTRY IS MY AMERICAN GRANDMOTHER, AUDREY EMERY, AND MY RUSSIAN GRANDFATHER, GRAND DUKE DMITRI OF RUSSIA AND HOW THEY CAME TO BE.

KELLAR: YES.

WELL, TELL US ABOUT IT.

ILYINSKY: INTERESTING, SO MY GRANDFATHER, THE GRAND DUKE DMITRI, WAS A GRANDSON OF CZAR ALEXANDER II WHO FREED THE RUSSIAN SERFS A YEAR BEFORE LINCOLN FREED THE SLAVES, WHICH GAVE HIM THE TITLE OF GRAND DUKE.

HE WAS EXILED IN 1916 BEFORE THE REVOLUTION BECAUSE OF HIS INVOLVEMENT IN THE MURDER OF RASPUTIN.

HE WAS EXILED TO THE PERSIAN FRONT AND BECAME FRIENDS WITH THE ENGLISH AMBASSADOR.

SPENT SEVERAL YEARS THERE.

THEN KING GEORGE V GAVE HIM AN HONORARY POSITION AS AN OFFICER IN THE BRITISH ARMY, AND HE MADE HIS WAY TO FRANCE, BIARRITZ.

AND IN THAT TIME HE HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH COCO CHANEL.

HIS SISTER, GRAND DUCHESS MARIE HAD A COMPANY CALLED KITMIR, SHE WAS DOING EMBROIDERY WORK FOR COCO CHANEL.

AND THEN FROM COCO CHANEL, SHE MET MY GRANDMOTHER IN BIARRITZ, FRANCE, WHO HAD BEEN FIXED UP ON A DOUBLE DATE.

IN THAT TIME, WEALTHY AMERICANS WOULD SEND THEIR DAUGHTERS TO EUROPE TO MARRY THEM OFF TO EUROPEAN MEN WITH TITLES.

THEY WOULD LATER GET THE NICKNAME DOLLAR PRINCESSES, WHICH IS PROBABLY APPROPRIATE.

BUT ON HER FIRST DATE, HER SISTER, LELA EMERY WERE FIXED UP WITH GRAND DUKE DMITRI AND COUNT TALLEYRAND.

AND IT TURNS OUT THEY ENDED UP MARRYING EACH OTHER'S DATE, WHICH IS AN INTERESTING TWIST.

KELLAR: VERY, VERY INTERESTING.

I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE INCIDENT WHERE THAT GRAND DUKE AND FELIX YUSUPOV MURDERED RASPUTIN.

COULD I -- DO YOU MIND IF I TELL IT?

ILYINSKY: IF YOU WANT.

KELLAR: OKAY.

THE REASON THEY WANTED HIM TO BE GONE WAS BECAUSE RASPUTIN WAS INFLUENCING THE TSARINA ALEXANDRA.

AND THE CZAR WAS AWAY FIGHTING A WAR, SUPPOSEDLY, AND SHE WAS INCREDIBLY INFLUENCED BY RASPUTIN, WHO WAS THE DIRTY, GREASY, HORRIBLE, SO-CALLED MONK, AND THEIR SON HAD HEMOPHILIA.

SO HE WOULD BE CALLED IN WHEN THE SON WOULD HAVE AN EPISODE.

AND FOR SOME REASON HE WAS ABLE TO CALM HIM DOWN AND GET HIM THROUGH, WHICH IS VERY -- IT'S VERY PAINFUL, GET HIM THROUGH THE EPISODE.

SO THE TSARINA CONSIDERED HIM THE SAVIOR OF HER SON.

SO WHATEVER HE TOLD HER TO DO, SHE WOULD -- THAT'S WHAT SHE TOLD THE MINISTERS AND THERE WERE DEVASTATING CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO RASPUTIN HAD TO GO.

SO AS YOUNG GUYS, FELIX YUSUPOV, WHO HIS FAMILY WAS THE RICHEST IN RUSSIA, AND GRAND DUKE DMITRI, WHO HAD EVERYTHING TO LOSE IF THE BOLSHEVIKS TOOK OVER.

SO THEY COOKED UP THIS PLAN.

ILYINSKY: ALONG WITH THREE OTHERS, KELLAR: ALONG WITH THREE OTHERS, OKAY.

ILYINSKY: AND YUSUPOV COOKED UP THE PLAN.

KELLAR: RIGHT, OKAY, YUSUPOV COOKED UP THE PLAN.

BUT THEY WERE ALL THEY ARE HAVING A PARTY AND THEY TRIED TO POISON RASPUTIN WITH SOME SWEET CAKES THAT HE LIKED.

NO LUCK, SO THEN THEY SHOT HIM.

AND HE STILL DIDN'T DIE AND THEY DRAGGED HIS BODY.

AM I CORRECT?

ILYINSKY: ROUGHLY, YEAH.

I'M NOT A HISTORIAN, BUT YES.

KELLAR: OKAY, DRAGGED HIS BODY INTO THE RIVER AND HE ACTUALLY WAS STILL ALIVE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DO AN AUTOPSY, YOU CAN -- ILYINSKY: HIS LUNGS WERE FILLED WITH WATER.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

EXACTLY.

TELL THEM WHY THEY -- ILYINSKY: THEY DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BE MADE A SAINT.

THE CHURCH BELIEVED IF YOU DIED FROM DROWNING, YOU DIDN'T QUALIFY TO BE A SAINT.

THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.

KELLAR: YEAH, THAT'S.

YEAH.

SO, THE GRAND DUKE AND YUSUPOV WERE EXILED.

ILYINSKY: YUSUPOV WAS ONLY EXILED TO THEIR WINTER PALACE BECAUSE HIS FAMILY WAS SO WEALTHY AND POWERFUL.

KELLAR: YEAH.

DID HE GO TO EUROPE THEN?

ILYINSKY: HE DID EVENTUALLY.

KELLAR: BUT HE SURVIVED AND NOBODY -- WHERE WAS HIS PALACE?

ILYINSKY: WELL, IT'S IN ST. PETERSBURG AND IT'S QUITE A REMARKABLE PALACE AND IT HAS HIS OWN THEATER IN THE PALACE.

KELLAR: AND I'M SHOCKED THAT THEY DIDN'T MURDER HIM BECAUSE THEY MURDERED ALL THE REST OF THE FAMILY.

ILYINSKY: WELL, THEIR FAMILY OWNED THE OIL AND GAS RIGHTS IN RUSSIA, AND SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE.

KELLAR: YEAH, EXACTLY.

SO THAT'S HOW WE COME TO THE MURDER OF RASPUTIN.

THAT WAS MICHAEL'S GRANDFATHER.

ILYINSKY: SO THAT'S WHAT SAVED HIS LIFE, WAS BEING EXILED.

KELLAR: EXACTLY.

ILYINSKY: AND THEN, WHICH HAD HE NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT, THAT I WOULD NOT BE HERE TODAY.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

ILYINSKY: IT'S INTERESTING HOW LIFE -- IN HIS DIARIES, HE WROTE ABOUT HOW MISERABLE, YOU KNOW, THIS SITUATION HE WAS IN, HOW UNHAPPY THIS COUNTRY IS IN A REVOLUTION.

HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO HELP OR CAN'T PARTICIPATE.

SO BUT HIS MISERY TURNED OUT TO SAVE HIS LIFE.

KELLAR: EXACTLY.

YEAH, THEY WERE THE LUCKY ONES.

AND THEN HE LEFT -- WHEN HE LEFT, HE THEN WENT TO -- ILYINSKY: HE WENT FROM THE PERSIAN FRONT TO FRANCE AND ENGLD AND THEN FRANCE AND BURIED MY GRANDMOTHER IN BIARRITZ.

AND THEN THEY HAD ONE SON, MY FATHER, PAUL, BORN IN ENGLAND AND CAME TO UNITED STATES AS A BECAUSE OF WORLD WAR II.

AND BY THAT TIME, HIS MOTHER AND FATHER WERE DIVORCED.

SO AUDREY, SHE STILL LOVED DMITRI VERY MUCH.

AND IN FACT, SHE SUPPORTED HIM FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE.

HE DIED AT AGE OF 50 IN DAVOS, SWITZERLAND, FROM TUBERCULOSIS, BUT SHE TOOK CARE OF HIM.

KELLAR: AND SO DO WE ASSUME THAT DMITRI WAS THE ONE WHO WANTED A DIVORCE.

ILYINSKY: I WOULD THINK POSSIBLY TH KELLAR: YEAH, BECAUSE SHE WAS -- KELLAR: I WILL TELL THE VIEWING AUDIENCE, AND MICHAEL DOESN'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH THIS.

ALL THE PICTURES I'VE SEEN OF DMITRI AND THE DESCRIPTIONS THAT HE WAS VERY TALL AND VERY HANDSOME AND HE LOOKED -- MICHAEL LOOKS JUST LIKE HIM, AND YOU CAN DENY THAT.

ILYINSKY: WE LOOK, I'M A DESCENDANT OF HIS.

I COULD BE HIS GRANDSON.

I COULD.

KELLAR: EXACTLY.

I THINK YOU LOOK JUST LIKE HIM.

HE WAS A VERY CHARMING GUY.

AND WHAT HE DID, I THINK -- WELL, THE GOVERNMENT FELL.

SO YOU CAN SPECULATE MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE WORKED, WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED GETTING RID OF RASPUTIN, NOBODY KNEW BECAUSE THE REVOLUTION CAME AND THEY LUCKILY WEREN'T STILL IN THE COUNTRY.

BUT THE BOLSHEVIKS DID TERRIBLE THINGS.

THEY DIDN'T JUST -- WELL, THE ROYAL FAMILY, THEY TOOK THEM ALL INTO THE CELLAR AND SHOT THEM AND KILLED THEM ALL.

BUT THEN THEY THREW THEM IN A PIT AND PUT SOMETHING OVER -- ILYINSKY: ACID OVER THEM, THEY BURNED THEIR BODIES.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

ILYINSKY: THEY DID NOT WANT THEM TO BE FOUND.

KELLAR: THEY DIDN'T WANT THEM TO -- THEM TO BE FOUND AS SYMBOLS OF WHITE RUSSIA.

ILYINSKY: WELL, I THINK ALSO THEY WANTED -- THEY WANTED TO AND SUCCEEDED IN MAKING A VERY CLEAR POINT: IF WE CAN MURDER THE EMPEROR AND HIS FAMILY, YOU HAVE NO CHANCE.

SO TO THE AVERAGE RUSSIAN CITIZEN, SO DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT STANDING UP TO US.

IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE.

KELLAR: YEAH, EXACTLY.

AND THEIR BONES WERE RE-BURIED, INTERNED IN THE PETER AND PAUL PALACE BECAUSE THEY FINALLY, FINALLY ACCEPTED THAT THEY WERE -- THAT THEY WERE THE ROYAL FAMI.

BECAUSE FOR YEARS -- ILYINSKY: IN THAT DEBATE, BECAUSE OF DNA AND THE CHURCH QUESTIONS THE DNA FOR THEIR REASONS.

AND I DO HAVE ONE COUSIN WHO SIDES WITH THE CHURCH.

AND THEY'RE GGLING WITH THAT WITH ALEXEI AND HI SISTER AND IT'S FRUSTRATING.

THERE'S POLITICAL REASONS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT AND THEIR BONES SIT IN THESE COLDDRAWERS IN A LABORATORY SOMEWHERE BECAUSE OF POLITICS.

THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

KELLAR: WOW, SOMETIMES PEOPLE CAN GET ALL STIRRED UP OVER RELICS.

ILYINSKY: YES.

IN THE CHURCH, IT'S INTERESTING IN MEDIEVAL TIMES, PERHAPS MY TIMING'S OFF, THEY TAKE THE BONES OF A SAINT AND PUT IT INTO OIL AND PUT THAT INTO A CROSS AND IT'S VERY POWERFUL.

THEY GAVE THE CHURCH AND WHOEVER HELD THAT CROSS GREAT POWER IN THOSE DAYS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

THE CHURCH DURING THE REVOLUTION SUFFERED IMMENSELY BECAUSE THE COMMUNISTS DIDN'T WANT RELIGION.

THEY WANTED THE PARTY TO BE THEIR RELIGION.

SO IN THE TIMES WE'VE BEEN TO RUSSIA, THERE'S NO -- THERE WERE NOBODY, NOBODY WAS IN THE CHURCHES EXCEPT LITTLE OLD LADIES IN BLACK WITH A SCARF OVER THEIR HEAD, BRINGING LITTLE TREATS AND THINGS AND PUTTING THEM ON THE ALTAR.

BUT AS FAR AS ACTUAL CHRISTIANITY OR ANY OTHER RELIGION, THAT WAS STIFLED, ILYINSKY: IT WAS ILLEGAL TO TEACH RELIGION AND TO PREACH.

THEY TURN TO THE -- OH, IT'S A CATHEDRAL IN SAINT PETERSBURG, SAINT ISAAC'S, BEAUTIFUL, BUT THAT BECAME THE BUILDING OF ATHEISM, THE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH IN ATHEISM.

KELLAR: EXACTLY.

ILYINSKY: AND THEY RESTORED THAT.

THEY REBUILT -- THE SOVIETS, BLEW UP THE CHURCH IN MOSCOW.

AND I'M BLANKING ON THE NAME, BUT THEY'VE REBUILT THAT COMPLETELY.

IT'S HUGE.

SO THEY'RE TRYING TO FIX SOME THINGS FROM THE PAST.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

AND THEY RESTORED CATHERINE'S PALACE IN TSARSKOYE SELO.

ILYINSKY: YES.

THEN THEY'RE STILL THERE FINISHING UP ALEXANDER'S PALACE AND TSARSKOYE SELO TOO.

KELLAR: THE FIRST TIME WE WERE THERE, I REMEMBER MY HUSBAND SAID, "YOU KNOW, IT'S SO INTERESTING THAT THE SOVIETS TRIED TO DESTROY ANYTHING CONNECTED WITH THE ROYALTY, BUT THEY SPENT ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO RESTORE PLACES THAT HAD BEEN DAMAGED AND CATHERINE'S PALACE WAS ONE OF TH ILYINSKY: WELL, THE REASON FOR THAT BEING WAS BECAUSE OF THE TOURIST DOLLARS CAME IN BECAUSE THE RUBLE WAS NOT USABLE ON THE INTERNATIONAL MARKETS AND THEY NEEDED HARD CURRENCY.

AND THAT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE MY FIRST TRIP IN '89, CATHERINE'S PALACE WAS STILL UNDER MAJOR RENOVATION.

THE AMBER ROOM HAD BEEN RESTORED YET, OR REBUILT ACTUALLY BECAUSE IT DISAPPEARED.

THE CHURCH IN ST. PETERSBURG WAS ALL UNDER SCAFFOLDING AND IT WAS -- BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY NEED THE MONEY AND TOURISM'S GOOD FOR EVERYBODY.

KELLAR: RIGHT, EXACTLY.

ILYINSKY: BUT THEY STILL CONTINUE NOW TO RESTORE FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

AND THE PEOPLE THAT TAKE CARE OF THEIR MUSEUMS, WHO TAKE CARE OF THE CHURCHES ARE REMARKABLE.

THIS IS THEIR LIFE.

I GAVE ALL MY GRANDFATHER'S POSSESSIONS THAT I HAD TO THE MUSEUM IN TSARSKOYE SELO, AND I TOOK IT A CHRISTMAS TIME THINKING THERE WOULDN'T BE MUCH SECURITY AT THE AIRPORT.

I HAD FOUR HUGE BOXES AND THEY CAUGHT ME.

AND SO THROUGH THE PROCESS, EVEN THOUGH I WAS BRINGING IT INTO THE COUNTRY, I THINK IT'D BE ILLEGAL, THAT I HAD TO SIGN A PAPER THAT IF THEY FOUND ME GUILTY THAT I WOULD GO TO PRISON.

SO THEY -- SINCE I WAS LEAVING THE COUNTRY, ONE OF THE MUSEUM EMPLOYEES, AN ATTORNEY, SIGNED THE PAPER SAYING SHE WOULD GO TO PRISON IN MY PLACE.

KELLAR: OH, GOOD.

ILYINSKY: CAN YOU IMAGINE A MUSEUM EMPLOYEE IN THIS COUNTRY SIGNING A PAPER LIKE THAT?

BUT THAT'S HOW MUCH THEY -- THAT'S HOW MUCH THEIR MUSEUMS AND THEIR HISTORY IS IMPORTANT TO THEM.

AND THE CURATORS WHO WERE THE CURATORS, THEIR FATHER WAS A CURATOR, THEIR MOTHER WAS A CURATOR, AND THEIR GRANDPARENTS.

SO THERE'S THIS LONG HISTORY AND THEY CHERISH THAT HISTORY.

AND I THINK, THOUGH, NOW WHEN YOU GET TO THE POLITICAL SIDE, I THINK SOME OF THE POLITICAL POLITICIANS WANT TO CONNECT THEMSELVES TO THE IMAGERY AND THE HISTORY OF THE IMPERIAL FAMILY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

ILYINSKY: FOR POLITICAL REASONS.

AND IT'S, EHH.

KELLAR: WELL, I MEAN, THAT POLITICIANS HAVE FOUND DEVIOUS WAYS TO DO A LOT OF THINGS.

ILYINSKY: IN ALL COUNTRIES, YES.

KELLAR: FROM THE GREEKS ON FOR MOVING FORWARD.

YES.

ILYINSKY: WHICH IS INTERESTING YOU MENTIONED GREEKS BECAUSE NOW MY OTHER GREAT, GREAT GRANDFATHER WAS KING GEORGE I OF GREECE.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOODNESS.

ILYINSKY: SO I HAVE TWO GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHERS, AN EMPEROR AND A KING ON BOTH SIDES ON MY FATHER'S LINE.

BUT KING GEORGE I WAS A FATHER OF MY GREAT GRANDFATHER'S WIFE.

SO, I HAVE THE FEMALE LINK THERE.

KELLAR: YOU MENTIONED GEORGE V WHO WAS KING OF ENGLAND AT THE TIME.AND HE'S THE ONE WHO REFUSO LET THE ROYAL FAMILY COME TO ENGLAND.

AND THE THING THAT'S SO IRONICAL IS IF YOU LOOK AT PICTURES OF THEM, THEY LOOK LIKE TWINS.

ILYINSKY: I HAVE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS OF THEM AT HOME.

KELLAR: THEY LOOK EXACTLY ALIKE, AND YET THE KING OF ENGLAND REFUSED.

ILYINSKY: AND THAT'S DIFFICULT, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND TO THE REVOLUTION WAS SUCH AN UGLY THING.

AND IF THAT CAN HAPPEN TO THE IMPERIAL FAMILY, IT COULD HAPPEN TO ANY ROYAL FAMILY.

AND ONE WAY, PEOPLE COPE WITH THINGS IS DENY IT'S HAPPENING.

AN EXTENSION OF EITHER WE DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED INTO A WAR.

KELLAR: YEAH, I THINK IT WAS WE DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED WITH YOU.

AND IT WASN'T POLITICALLY SMART, APPARENTLY.

ILYINSKY: WELL, IT'S FAMILY, SO IT'S A PRETTY LOUSY THING TO DO ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE.

KELLAR: INCREDIBLY LOUSY.

YEAH, OF COURSE.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM.

ILYI.

KELLAR: BUT I MEAN, NO ONE DID.

NO ONE COULD BELIEVE IT.

AND TO THIS DAY, AND WE'VE LEARNED THIS IN FOUR TRIPS TO RUSSIA, THEY --OR MAYBE NOW, MAYBE IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO, BUT THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT ASSASSINATING THE CZAR'S FAMILY.

PEOPLE THEY ARE NOT GIVEN THAT STORY.

ILYINSKY: WELL, THEY WEREN'T GIVEN ANY OF -- THE ROMANOFF'S WERE LITERALLY REMOVED FROM THEIR TEXTBOOKS.

AND IT'S SURPRISING FOR ME THIS RESURGENCE.

AND I DO HAVE MY COUSIN PAUL KOLAKOWSKI, DANISH, WHO'S BEEN LIVING IN RUSSIA FOR SIX YEARS NOW, DOES A ROMANOFF FAMILY NEWSLETTER.

HE HAS DONE MORE TO PROMOTE AND KEEP THE ROMANOFF FAMILY NAME IN THE PUBLIC EYE.

BUT THE GOVERNMENT HAS SUPPORTED THAT AS WELL WITH BUILDING MONUMENTS BECAUSE THEY JUST DID NOT KNOW.

THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST A BUNCH OF LAZY, RICH PEOPLE MOOCHING OFF THE PEOPLE.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

ILYINSKY: AND THEY WEREN'T.

IT WAS INTERESTING, A DOCTOR GAVE ME A BOOK AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW IN THE SOVIET SYSTEM, HE SAID, "WE WOULD GET A LETTER AND IT WOULD SAY TO PAGE 37 OUT OF THE BOOK AND REPLACE IT WITH THIS PAGE."

AND YOU WILL JUST PUT THE LOOSE PAGE IN THERE.

SO HE GAVE ME THAT BOOK WITH OLD PAGE AND THE NEW PAGE AND THE LETTER TO SHOW HOW THAT'S JUST HOW THEY DID THINGS.

WHEN I DID SUBSTANCE ABUSE WORK MY LAST TRIP, ALL THE BOOKS AND LITERATURE WE HAD TAKEN OVER WRITTEN IN RUSSIAN WERE LOST.

THE AIRLINES LOST THEM ALL.

AND I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED, AND MY COUNTERPARTS SAID, "NO, THIS IS GOOD."

HE SAID, "YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS ARE THE BOOK."

HE SAID, "WE'VE GROWN UP ALL OUR LIVES, THE GOVERNMENT WRITES A BOOK AND SAYS, 'THIS IS HOW YOU WILL LIVE,' AND THAT'S HOW YOU HAD TO LIVE."

HE SAID, "WE'RE TIRED OF READING BOOKS."

HE SAID, "WE'RE GOING TO WATCH YOU.

AND IF YOU WALK THE TALK, THEN IT WILL SELL."

KELLAR: RIGHT.

I DO HAVE TO MENTION THIS STORY.

ROBERT K. MASSIE WAS -- IS THE EMINENT SCHOLAR ON THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION, AND HE'S WRITTEN SEVERAL BOOKS AND DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH.

AND HE'S THE ONE WHO INTERVIEWED YOUR DAD.

BUT HE SAID TO PAUL ILYINSKY WHEN HE WENT TO VISIT HIM, HE SAID HE'D DONE THE GENEALOGY.

AND IN SPITE OF ALL THESE PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO SAY, "OH, I WOULD HAVE BEEN CZAR IF ONLY IT HADN'T HAPPENED," HE SAID IT ACTUALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN YOU WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT, WHEN I WAS TALKING TO PAUL.

AND PAUL'S LAUGHED AND SAID, "WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M AN AMERICAN AND I'M THE PERSON WHO'S BEEN ELECTED AS MAYOR OF PALM BEACH."

BUT IF, LET'S JUST SAY JUST FOR FUN, IF HE HAD BEEN CZAR, WOULD YOU HA NEXT OR WAS THAT YOUR OLDER BROTHER?

ILYINSKY: OH, MY OLDER BROTHER, CLEARLY.

KELLAR: AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED HIM?

ILYINSKY: PROBABLY NOT, BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN IN TROUBLE SOMEWHERE, AND HE WOULD HAVE KICKED ME OUT.

KELLAR: THAT'S RIGHT, OKAY.

YOU COULD HAVE BEEN THE BAD CZAR.

ILYINSKY: YEAH.

NO.

KELLAR: YOU WERE -- (CROSSTALK) ILYINSKY: THE TROUBLEMAKERS CZAR, THE TERRIBLE, MICHAEL THE TERRIBLE.

KELLAR: MICHAEL THE TERRIBLE, THAT'S IT.

AND THEY CAN PUT A GIGANTIC STATUE IN YOUR HONOR IN RED SQUARE.

SO WHEN YOU GO -- ILYINSKY: SO THE BIRDS COULD POOP ON IT.

KELLAR: YES.

KELLAR: OH, THEY WOULDN'T DARE.

THEY WOULD NOT DARE.

SO YOU GO BACK AND FORTH TO RUSSIA TEACHING, HELPING PEOPLE.

ILYINSKY: I WAS DOING WORK IN THE FIELD OF DRUG ADDICTION AND ALCOHOLISM.

ILYINSKY: IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT TIME.

THEY HAD -- THE TREATMENTS WERE VERY DIFFERENT .

THEY WEREN'T HAVING MUCH SUCCESS.

AND THEN AFTER THE FALL, THE SOVIET UNION, I DID A LITTLE BIT OF WORK IN THAT AREA, BUT THEN IT WAS TRYING TO FIND NEW AREAS TO DO WORK WITH THE FAMILY NAME AND THE FAMILY HISTORY.

AND THAT ACTUALLY PROVED TO BE MORE CHALLEN KELLAR: REALLY WHY?

ILYINSKY: I THINK, WELL, THE SOVIET TIME, THE PROBLEM WAS REAL AND IF THINGS NEED TO GET DONE, SOMEONE COULD JUST ISSUE AN ORDER AND THEY WOULD HELP OUT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

KELLAR: SO IT WAS SIMPLE THAT WAY AND THEN AFTER THE FALL OF THE SOVIET UNION, EVERYONE AND THEIR BROTHER WAS TRYING TO GET MONEY AND COMING UP WITH SCHEMES AND SCAMS.

AND THEY NEEDED INCUBATOR FOR PREMATURE BABIES.

AND I SAID I CAN PROBAB A USED ONE IN THE STATES WE COULD GET DONATED.

"NO, WE HAVE TO HAVE A NEW ONE WITH A WARRANTY."

YEAH.

SO THEY COULD SELL IT.

THINGS LIKE THAT WOULD JUST DRIVE ME NUTS, BUT THAT'S THEIR SYSTEM AND THAT'S NORMAL TO THEM, UNFORTUNATELY.

AND WE THINK OF IT AS A VERY CORRUPT SYSTEM, BUT -- IT IS, BUT THAT'S NORMAL FOR THEM.

SO THEY DON'T QUITE UNDERSTA BUT THEY DO -- AND THAT'S MAYBE IN THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE NOW I SEE THAT IS SO MAINSTREAM, THOUGH, THAT EVEN HONEST PEOPLE ARE SCARED, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE HONEST, YOUR FRIENDS MAY SET YOU UP TO GET RID OF YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A THREAT TO THEM IF YOU MIGHT GO TO THE AUTHORITIES TO EXPOSE SOME ILLEGAL PRACTICE.

AND THAT'S TERRIFYING AND THAT GOES ON.

KELLAR: WELL, I THINK THAT AS FAR AS THE SYSTEM, THAT SYSTEM WAS IN PLACE WITH THE CZARS AND HAS CONTINUED ON.

AND THE DEPRIVATION OF THEIR -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE PRESENT DAY BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BEEN BACK FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, BUT AND THE LAST TIME WE WERE THERE, EVERYTHING WAS MODERN AND WONDERFUL BECAUSE IT WAS AFTER THE SOVIET UNION BROKE UP.

AND BUT THAT SYSTEM WAS IN PLACE AT THE TIME AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE GOODS, THEY DIDN'T HAVE -- REMEMBER THE DOLLAR STORE?

THE DOLLAR STORES WHERE YOU COULD ONLY BUY SOMETHING WITH AMERICAN OR FOREIGN CASH.

ILYINSKY: RIGHT.

KELLAR: THE RUSSIANS COULDN'T GO IN AND BUY SOMETHING WITH A RUBLE, AND THAT WAS BECAUSE THEY WANTED THE AMERICAN.

ILYINSKY: THEY NEEDED THE HARD CURRENCY.

THERE WERE A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN THE IMPERIAL TIMES AS WELL.

THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HOU SHORTAGE FOR RUSSIA.

AND WHAT THE SOVIETS DID BRING IN VERY QUICKLY WAS MEDICINE FOR EVERYONE AND EDUCATION, WHICH THEY NEVER HAD BEFORE.

AND THAT WASN'T, I THINK, EXCLUSIVE TO RUSSIA.

I THINK EUROPE, TOO, BECAUSE THEY RULED UNDER THE PREMISE THAT THEY ARE GOD'S REPRESENTATIVE ON EARTH.

AND THAT SORT OF IS A LICENSE TO STEAL.

AND THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT WORD, BUT IT'S A LICENSE TO NOT DO THE RIGHT THING PERHAPS?

AND IT CAUSES A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DENIAL OF IT AND I THINK ISOLATION.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW THE COMMON PEOPLE LIVED AND AT LEAST THE SOVIETS DID THE HEALTH CARE IS HUGE, EDUCATION IS HUGE.

AND THEIR EDUCATION SYSTEM IT WAS INTERESTING HOW EDUCATED SOVIETS WERE.

AND SO THE LAST FEW YEARS OF THE SOVIET UNION, THERE WERE PROBLEMS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY MASONS.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE PLUMBERS, ELECTRICIANS.

THEY BROUGHT ALL THE PEOPLE IN FROM OUT OF THE COUNTRY BECAUSE THOSE ARE MENIAL JOBS.

SO THE COUNTRY STARTED FORCING STUDENTS INTO THOSE TYPE OF SCHOOLS AND THEIR PARENTS WERE IN ARMS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY WANT AN EDUCATED CHILD.

WELL, THOSE CHILDREN NOW PROBABLY ALL MILLIONAIRES BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE TO DO THAT WORK.

KELLAR: YEAH.

ILYINSKY: SO IT'S JUST THESE WEIRD LITTLE THINGS THAT GO IN LIFE THAT WE THINK ARE BAD WOULD TURN OUT TO BE GOOD OR -- KELLAR: YEAH.

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THE MOVIE MOSCOW ON THE HUDSON?

ILYINSKY: YES.

ROBIN WILLIAMS, A LONG TIME AGO.

KELLAR: WE RECOMMEND IT.

IT'S INCREDIBLY -- IT'S VERY FUNNY.

IT'S A BUSLOAD OF RUSSIANS WHO ARE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES FOR SOME SPORTS THING.

AND JUST AS THEY'RE ON THEIR WAY TO THE AIRPORT TO GO HOME, THEY STOP AT BLOOMINGDALE'S AND THEY LET EVERYBODY OUT .

AND THEY RUN INTO BLOOMINGDALE'S AND THEY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY SEE, ALL THIS STUFF THAT YO BUY.

AND THE MOVIE IS REALLY GREAT.

BUT YOU FELT BADLY ABOUT IT GOING TO THOSE DOLLAR STORES.

AND THERE WOULD BE PEOPLE WAITING OUTSIDE ASKING IF YOU WOULD BUY FOR THEM.

ILYINSKY: RIGHT.

IT'S YES, BUT I REMEMBER OUR DELEGATIONS FROM UKRAINE, KHARKIV, OUR SISTER CITY, AND THEY WOULD GO INTO A KROGER'S AND THEY'D BE LIKE, "YOU MEAN ANYONE CAN COME IN HERE AND BUY ALL THIS?"

AND WE'RE LIKE YES AND THEY WERE AMAZED.

BUT NOW, AFTER FIVE, SIX YEARS, YOU CAN GO TO ST. PETERSBURG TO THEIR GROCERY STORES, THEY MAKE OUR KROGER'S LOOK LIKE AMATEUR HOUR.

IT'S LIKE, HOLY SMOKES.

IT'S JUST -- SO THEY COPY.

THEY WERE VERY SMART TO LEARN BY DUPLICATING AND COPYING, AND THEY'VE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB OF THAT.

AND THEN RUSSIANS TODAY HAVE OPPORTUNITIES THAT DIDN'T EXIST IN THE SOVIET TIME.

YOU WERE -- WHERE YOU WERE BORN IS WHERE YOU WERE STAYING FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, PRETTY MUCH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE MILITARY.

IF YOU WENT TO THE MILITARY, WHEN YOU CAME OUT AS A VETE YOU WERE GIVEN PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT.

BUT AFTER AFGHANISTAN, THE COUNTRY WAS BANKRUPT AND THE VETERANS WEREN'T GIVEN PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT.

AND THAT REALLY WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE RUSSIAN MAFIA.

ALL THESE YOUNG VETERANS ARE COMING BACK.

THEY HAVE NO MONEY.

THEY GET BACK.

THERE'S NO SPECIAL APARTMENT.

THERE'S NOTHING FOR THEM.

AT THE SAME TIME, WITH GLASNOST AND PERESTROIKA, ALL THESE KIOSKS ARE OPENING UP AND PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO OWN A TRAILER OR A TRUCK FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.

AND THEY'RE DRIVING TO THE CLOSEST COUNTRY, BUYING WHATEVER THEY CAN, DRIVE BACK, GO TO THE SQUARE, SELL IT.

SO THIS WHOLE CITIES OF LITTLE KIOSKS POPPED UP ACROSS RUSSIA SELLING STUFF.

WELL, THESE VETERANS CAME BACK AND THEY STARTED DOING THE OLD, "LOOK, YOU KNOW, IF YOU PAY ME TEN DOLLARS A WEEK, NO ONE'S GOING TO BURN YOUR KIOSK DOWN."

AND THAT WAS REALLY THE ORIGIN OF THE RUSSIAN MAFIA, WHICH BECAME VERY GLOBAL, BUT THAT WAS IT, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TAKE CARE OF THEIR VETERANS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

MICHAEL, THIS HAS BEEN WONDERFUL.

YOU ARE DOING GREAT THINGS FOR THE WORLD AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.

ILYINSKY: I'VE BEEN VERY BLESSED TO HAVE SOME REMARKABLE PEOPLE COME INTO MY LIFE THAT SET EXAMPLES FOR ME, TAUGHT ME.

AND I'M VERY LUCKY FOR THAT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR COMING.

ILYINSKY: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

KELLAR: AND SHARING YOUR STORY.

ANNOUNCER: JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR RIGHT HERE ON CET.

CLOSED CAPTIONS: MAVERICK CAPTIONING, MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM CINCINNATI OH 443 ABOUT 3